http://sylvieshene.blogspot.com/2012/08/my-comment-on-forum-about.html
P: Once again I couldn't agree more with you,
Sylvie! Yes, I came across this forum by chance and found the original entry by
Mariama about Alice Miller and Barbara Rogers quite reasonable, as well as your
comments on her "thoughts about Alice Miller". But later on the
thread changes to the typical argumentation of the abused child, in order not
to face their own childhood drama and to be able to go on admiring their
"loving and good parents" they blame genetics for all kinds of evil,
including psychopathy. As usual for this kind of people, they look for support
in "scientific" evidence, discrediting Alice Miller as
"unscientific" because unlike that of "serious" scientists
her work is not based on experiments whose results are reflected in numbers and
figures in statistics. They say said her findings are based on personal
observation of few individual cases (of her patients) from which no general
conclusions can be drawn because they simply can't bear the truth. Science is
generally defined as "objective" results of research work whose truth
must be proved by a series of experiments conducted in a certain way. Alice
Miller was not interested in this (neither am I) because the fact that most
children in this world in all times have been abused in one way or the other is
so obvious that it does not need "scientific" research and statistic,
for example by means of those books the people in the psychopath forum
recommend you to read because for them it is essential to have a
"proof" that everything is genetic and thus spare their parents.
Certainly it would be interesting to read one of them, but I don't think they
would change my mind. Even though I am not an expert in genetics, I simply do
not believe in the existence of "evil" or "psychopathical"
genes. Neither do I see the point they make between becoming
"neurotic", which they admit can be caused due upbringing and
becoming a psychopath, which according to them is genetic. I think there is a
small percentage of genetic predisposition to REACT to being treated in one way
or the other, for example, not ALL abused children become abusers. However, the
chance to grow up emotionally healthily depends highly on the way we are
treated from our earliest childhood on, starting with a conscious pregnancy and
humane birth.
For Alice, you and me and fortunately some more people, more than "scientific accuracy" (if there is such a thing, and if there is: What are its parameters??? Who is the only to define what is "science" and what is not?? :::::)the important thing is to spread the word about the dramatic, worldwide dimension of child abuse, make people see to what extent it affects us all and HOPEFULLY bring about a change FOR OUR ALL GOOD!
Finally, I absolutely agree with you, as you I would not go participating in that forum. It's simply a waste of time and energy, those people are too narrow-minded to see the truth about their education. Maybe you're right, they are psychopaths themselves. I just skimmed through the site and got the impression they are pretty esoteric and cultist, just my impression, I actually did not take much time reading their entries and I don't think I will. The more I think about it, ANY kind of spirituality is getting more and more suspicious to me. WHY DO WE ALWAYS NEED A "SUPERIOR" AUTHORITY (call it god, or whatever you want) in order to justify our existence on this planet and "behave well" in order to please this authority. Isn't it enough to be ethical just because everybody feels and gets on better this way??? Why do I have to respect nature because it's "god's creation" and not just because it is beautiful and I love it, no matter where, when, how and why it came into existence????
I could go on and on with this....but for the moment just....
For Alice, you and me and fortunately some more people, more than "scientific accuracy" (if there is such a thing, and if there is: What are its parameters??? Who is the only to define what is "science" and what is not?? :::::)the important thing is to spread the word about the dramatic, worldwide dimension of child abuse, make people see to what extent it affects us all and HOPEFULLY bring about a change FOR OUR ALL GOOD!
Finally, I absolutely agree with you, as you I would not go participating in that forum. It's simply a waste of time and energy, those people are too narrow-minded to see the truth about their education. Maybe you're right, they are psychopaths themselves. I just skimmed through the site and got the impression they are pretty esoteric and cultist, just my impression, I actually did not take much time reading their entries and I don't think I will. The more I think about it, ANY kind of spirituality is getting more and more suspicious to me. WHY DO WE ALWAYS NEED A "SUPERIOR" AUTHORITY (call it god, or whatever you want) in order to justify our existence on this planet and "behave well" in order to please this authority. Isn't it enough to be ethical just because everybody feels and gets on better this way??? Why do I have to respect nature because it's "god's creation" and not just because it is beautiful and I love it, no matter where, when, how and why it came into existence????
I could go on and on with this....but for the moment just....
HUGS AND KISSES TO YOU
Sylvie: Hi P
Thanks for writing. I enjoy reading every word and I could not agree more with you.
I came across this forum, because I have a Google alert on Alice Miller and on my own name, so if anyone mentions me or Alice on the net I get a Google alert and that is why I found this forum because of Mariama’s post about Alice Miller been deceived by the psychopath of Barbara Rogers. I feel a little sad for Mariama because I could feel her pain by her last post addressing me. I don’t think she is aware that she is surrounded by psychopaths in that forum, but I am not posting there anymore, just in case she is a psychopath too and posted that post to manipulate people to join their group. After a recently experience I had with a psychopath that was saying to me all the right things, but only she wanted was money from me and the moment I said no to her and she saw she could not manipulate me to do what she wanted me to do, she had no more use for me and became vicious like Barbara Rogers was to Alice, so now I am really question everyone that crosses my path. The reason I posted again on the forum was because I just wanted to let them know that the word “explore” in my earlier post was supposed to be “exploit” and then I decided to share with them that I agree with Alice Miller that psychopathy is not genetic, but created by parental and society’s ignorance. In the middle ages people thought mental disorders were the cause of people being possessed by the devil or evil spirits and sadly in some parts of the world they still think that people with mental illness are possessed by bad spirits, it happened to me as a teenager that my oldest sisters took me to see a friend of theirs, a cult leader of spiritist group, based on the books of Allan Kardec, supposedly a great medium that talked with dead spirits of big personalities, my sister’s friend also talked with dead spirits, what a show! Some people in the group were very good actors, they even changed voices when a spirit was using their bodies as a medium. They thought my anger and bad behavior was the cause of bad spirits taking possession of my body, because I was a weak person and bad spirits take advantage of me, and they would do this head and shoulders massages on me to cleanse me of the bad spirits, I knew, they all were full of it, but I would go along with their massages, because they felt good! :-)
The reason
I was so angry and acting out was because I could not take their lies, hypocrisy
and ignorance. The scientists in modern times, they don’t want to blame the
devil or bad spirits, they are too sophisticated for that, so let’s blame “bad
genes” people are just born bad, same song, different tune, nothing changes, so
people don’t have to confront their parents and see them as they really were
and keep their illusions of their loving parents. It’s all copout, so they
don’t have to take responsibility and face and feel the pain that they have
contributed to the creation of these psychopaths with their ignorance, hypocrisy
and their illusion of love. Alice Miller was a true scientist and I am more of
a scientist than these mad scientists hiding behind “bad genes” so they don’t
have to look in the mirror and confront their internalized parents.
Alice Miller was a very classic person and refrained from labeling people with psychiatric disorders and I too don’t like to put labels on people, but sometimes we have to call a spade a spade and people that get conceptual knowledge and then use it to try to manipulate others, so they don’t have to face and consciously experience the repressed emotions of the child they once were in the context of their own childhood are true psychopaths.
Hugs to you too,
Sylvie
Thanks for writing. I enjoy reading every word and I could not agree more with you.
I came across this forum, because I have a Google alert on Alice Miller and on my own name, so if anyone mentions me or Alice on the net I get a Google alert and that is why I found this forum because of Mariama’s post about Alice Miller been deceived by the psychopath of Barbara Rogers. I feel a little sad for Mariama because I could feel her pain by her last post addressing me. I don’t think she is aware that she is surrounded by psychopaths in that forum, but I am not posting there anymore, just in case she is a psychopath too and posted that post to manipulate people to join their group. After a recently experience I had with a psychopath that was saying to me all the right things, but only she wanted was money from me and the moment I said no to her and she saw she could not manipulate me to do what she wanted me to do, she had no more use for me and became vicious like Barbara Rogers was to Alice, so now I am really question everyone that crosses my path. The reason I posted again on the forum was because I just wanted to let them know that the word “explore” in my earlier post was supposed to be “exploit” and then I decided to share with them that I agree with Alice Miller that psychopathy is not genetic, but created by parental and society’s ignorance. In the middle ages people thought mental disorders were the cause of people being possessed by the devil or evil spirits and sadly in some parts of the world they still think that people with mental illness are possessed by bad spirits, it happened to me as a teenager that my oldest sisters took me to see a friend of theirs, a cult leader of spiritist group, based on the books of Allan Kardec, supposedly a great medium that talked with dead spirits of big personalities, my sister’s friend also talked with dead spirits, what a show! Some people in the group were very good actors, they even changed voices when a spirit was using their bodies as a medium. They thought my anger and bad behavior was the cause of bad spirits taking possession of my body, because I was a weak person and bad spirits take advantage of me, and they would do this head and shoulders massages on me to cleanse me of the bad spirits, I knew, they all were full of it, but I would go along with their massages, because they felt good! :-)
Alice Miller was a very classic person and refrained from labeling people with psychiatric disorders and I too don’t like to put labels on people, but sometimes we have to call a spade a spade and people that get conceptual knowledge and then use it to try to manipulate others, so they don’t have to face and consciously experience the repressed emotions of the child they once were in the context of their own childhood are true psychopaths.
Hugs to you too,
Sylvie
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