Mr. X: I am not anti-woman. I love women and want them to live in a free, prosperous society that provides opportunities for all. I want women and men to live in a dynamic society where the goal is to create wealth and innovation, not depend on the government unless it's absolutely necessary.
Sylvie: Thank you for writing and expressing your thoughts. I did not expect it, and I congratulate you on your courage. I don’t agree with anything you wrote; they are psychopaths in both parties, and both contribute equally to people staying dependent through their ignorance, and I must vote for those who create a policy that allows people to make their own decisions. Life that is already born has the right to life and should be protected. Giving life to a being that is going to suffer for the rest of her life is cruel. What you said above will never happen unless women have complete control over their bodies and are able to make conscious decisions based on truth and facts, so if it is true that you love women and want all to have opportunities and live in a dynamic society where the goal is to create wealth and innovation without being in exploitative relationships with others and the planet. Still, everyone wins: a win-win situation. You cannot vote for Mitt, a cult member who belongs to the Mormon cult, and in all cults, all relationships are exploitative, so Mitt is going to be exploitative or let others exploit him; either way, it’s a lose-lose situation for all.
I don’t have a problem with you voting Republican if the people running on the Republican ticket were somewhere in the middle. Still, they are so extreme to the right, and Mitt is not only a member of a political cult, but he is also a member of a crazy religious cult, double dose! He is a totally programmed robot by two cults, and he even walks like a robot!
Mr. X: Government dependence traps people in poverty and prevents them from reaching their full potential, in my opinion.
Sylvie: Agree, but both parties equally contribute for people to be dependent on the government and the democratic at least give women the right to decide for themselves if they should or not to carry a pregnancy to term and give a birth to a new being, so they are giving an opportunity for people to become independent, when women carry pregnancies to term and give birth to a new beings without freeing themselves first, most likely they will remain dependent on the government, husbands, family or other people and the children they bring into the world most likely will remain dependent also, so if you really want this to happen you cannot absolutely vote for Mitt with a clear conscious.
Mr. X: No one is talking about making abortion illegal.”
Sylvie: Maybe Mitt does not really want to make abortion illegal, but many people supporting him do and will try to exploit Mitt to push their agenda of working towards making abortion illegal.
Mr. X: I can appreciate the fact that it's a difficult issue for some people.
Sylvie: No, it is not a difficult issue, people make it a difficult issue because they want to dictate in another person’s life, they want to make others slaves, most people objective is not freedom for themselves and others, but to one day own their own slaves, if a person has a difficulty with abortion don’t have one, but don’t force your will and beliefs into others. People need to understand that decisions relating to my own body are not up for debate, and I am willing to die or go to jail before I let someone else decide the most important decision in a woman’s life: whether I should or not carry a pregnancy to term and give birth to a new being. I am fully aware of the responsibility of bringing new beings into this world and how I can let someone else make that decision for me, especially politicians!
Mr. X: It is the law of the land and will likely remain so because it should be a state issue, and there are plenty of states that would never make it illegal.
Sylvie: Will likely! So it is a possibility that can become illegal! Yes, abortion is still legal in every state, but new laws restricting it are being passed every day. In Arizona, if I were a teenager today and in need of an abortion, I would need my parents’ consent, which means with my crazy, ignorant family, I would have to go underground in order to be in control of my own body. Abortion should be available for any woman at any age who needs or wants one, anytime and everywhere. Have you thought of the women who are too poor to travel to a State where abortion is legal, and having a child when she is not really ready can prevent her from ever finding independence, and then will not just be one person dependent but two! So if you truly love women, you would not take actions that would hinder their opportunity to free themselves.
Mr. X: I've said repeatedly that I respect a person's right to choose. I do not, as you say, "try to stop others.
Sylvie: I no longer go by what people say, but by their actions, and with your vote (action), you are stopping others. It makes me very sad that you are emotionally blind to see that when comes to the economy it does not matter who is in power, the Democrats spent money in creating programs that don’t work and the Republicans spend the same if not more in other illusions like instigating unnecessary wars, so it does not matter, they all spend money on illusions but what it’s important it’s to have people in power that at least will not create laws to rule in personal decisions of one’s life. I feel you just think of the money Mitt can keep in your pocket. A few dollars he might save you, but it will cost you a lot more in the long run. When Bush ran for president, and people said how good he would be for the economy, I would tell them he might save you some money in the short term, but in the long run, he would cost you a lot more, and I was right. He was a disaster for the economy.
Mr. X: And I think it's callous to ignore the fact that there is a defenseless life involved. I would never take away a woman's right to choose, but having a baby or giving it to parents who will care for it like their own should be considered; that's all.
Sylvie: So you think carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth to a new being and then giving it away for adoption is a good solution. When I know without a doubt that most people desire to have children comes from their unconscious need to have an available object to use as their poisonous container or scapegoat, no way in hell would I carry a pregnancy to term and give birth to a new being and then give it away for someone to use it as their poisonous container and have this new being spend her entire life in a labyrinth looking for a way out, that’s not living and the birthmother will be wounded for the rest of her life also for carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth to a new being and then give it away like it’s kitten or a puppy, babies are not kittens or puppies. Any conscious feeling human being knows the consequence of these traumas in people’s lives and for society at large and would never support adoption unless is already a child here that is in need to be adopted, adopting should be to fulfill the needs of a child, not to satisfy the desire of adults of wanting children to unconsciously use as their poisonous container, not ever a conscious woman ever carries a pregnancy to term and give birth to a new being to give it up for adoption.”Poisonous Pedagogy. The pedagogical conviction that one must bring a child into line from the outset originates in the need to split off the disquieting parts of the inner self and project them onto an available object. The child’s great plasticity, flexibility, defenselessness, and availability made it the ideal object for this projection. The enemy within can, at last, be hunted down on the outside. Peace advocates are becoming increasingly aware of the role played by these mechanisms, but until it is clearly recognized that they can be traced back to methods of child-rearing, little can be done to oppose them. For children who have grown up being assailed for qualities, the parents hate in themselves can hardly wait to assign these qualities to someone else so they can once again regard themselves as good, “moral,” noble, and altruistic. Such projections can easily become part of any Weltanschauung.” Alice Miller
A life worth giving birth to is a life that is going to be free to really live. This is not callous; it’s being truly loving and conscious. Pro-life people are not pro-life they are pro-birth, but after birth they don’t give a fuck about the person anymore and unconsciously enjoy seeing people live in an emotional prison, they live in an emotional prison and unconsciously they want others to have the same fate as them, it’s like they want as more people as possible to be born, so they can kill their souls and have the most people as possible to grow up without souls becoming great robots to continue their evil work on earth, this is the root of all the evil we see in the world and how psychopaths/sociopaths are created. Pro-lifers want people to be born so they can kill their souls. It's like they want an endless supply of new beings to exploit and use as their poisonous container or scapegoats; they are soul murders disguised as pro-lifers. Nothing in this world ever is what it seems.
“…unwanted children are usually mistreated. But there exists, as a rule, also a huge number of people who were "wanted" indeed, but only for playing the role of the victims that their parents needed to be able to take revenge on. They were wanted to give their parents what their parents never had gotten from their own parents: love, adoration, attention, and so many other things. Otherwise, why would so many people have five or more children when they have no time for them? Why do they adopt children if their body refuses to give them what they apparently "want? The never-acknowledged, never-felt pain of their childhood calls for being avenged. They go to church, they pray, they honor their parents, forgive them everything – and they mistreat their children at home, often in a very cruel way, AS IF THIS WERE THE MOST NATURAL THING because they learned this so early. Their children learn this perverted behavior, also very early, and will later do the same; and so this perverse behavior continues for millennia. Unless people are willing to SEE the perversion of their parents and are ready to consciously refuse to imitate it.
You are not being "sickeningly sarcastic"; you only dared to speak out the truth that most people are afraid of seeing or talking about.” Alice Miller
“The trauma of knowing one was given away at birth and the travails of trying to find out why.”
“‘It’s hard to put in words what being adopted does to a person,’ she writes in an email to Open, ‘You’re getting out of your natural system and culture. Then, they put you between people who don’t look like you at all. Everywhere you see White people. At school, I was always the only dark girl. And in Holland, most people are tall, so I was always the shortest. You see your friends looking like their parents, brothers, or sisters. I could not compare myself to anything. It makes you feel very lonely, and sometimes you think you are crazy because you feel so different.’
As a child, India was entirely unfamiliar to her. Later, India was just a unit of information, a place of her birth, and it wasn’t until she was past her teens that she developed a strong urge to contact her biological mother. “When I used to see daughters shopping with their mothers, I would imagine doing the same,” she says on Skype. “The image of my mother was blurry in my mind.” She would think of her mother on her birthdays. “That’s my day. I would wonder if my mother misses me [on my birthday].” Some of Carina’s thoughts were far from pleasant. ‘I have had a lot of psychiatric expenses because of all the problems I suffer from being abandoned (identity crisis, lack of confidence, bonding problems, etc),’ she writes.
“Adoption’s inherent abuse of children and families
Adoption itself inflicts psychological harm on adoptees. Adoption means the near-impossibility of either adoptee or adoptive parent being able to take their relationship for granted. Because the parent-child relationship is established by law and not by nature, the relationship cannot be regarded as a simple fact of life as it is in natural families, by either adoptees or adoptive parents.
We often read of adoptive parents being the “psychological parents” of adoptees. Yet what does being a “psychological parent” mean? It means the relationship is not natural or clear-cut. It means that in adoptive families, the parent-child relationship may be something that must be continually proved because it cannot be assumed. One way adoptive parents may seek to “prove” that they are “the” parents and are necessary to adoptees is to make themselves essential, which may mean being more controlling than the typical parent. One way adoptees may “prove” they are their adoptive parents’ children is by being more childlike, more immature, more dependent than typical sons and daughters, even when they are chronologically adults. . . .
Some adoptees may be less harmed by the disruption of the natural bond with their birthmothers than others. Some adoptive parents empathize better than others. Some are able to love and accept the children they adopt for who they really are, while others will never stop trying to mold adoptees into the natural children they could not have. But still, adoption itself, I think, harms children. . . . Inside every adoptee lurks an abandoned child, and that child hurts. . . .
Yes, I know that some non-adopted children are damaged by abuse, poverty, or other ills. I know many single parents have one or more risk factors in their families. Yet most, maybe all, of the problems that face vulnerable natural parents can be eliminated by societal and familial support, while the problems that occur in adoption, particularly when the parents are infertile and the adoption is closed, are inherent in adoption and cannot be prevented or eliminated.”
As someone said in a Facebook page “Adoption Trauma” post: “As an adoptee raised in an extremely loving home, with a reunion that was a disaster, I can honestly say that the lies have to stop. As a civil society, we need to stop this nonsense of human trafficking disguised as adoption. If a mother cannot, absolutely cannot, parent "her" child, then legal guardianship should be appointed. Again, I say, I had a lovely home, but this adoption masquerade has to end! Grown adults should be mature enough to stop playing house and just raise the other woman’s child, but never ever insist on making the child play act in the drama of their life, pretending to be their child. They are not their child, but someone else's, they are caretaking for! This is cruel and inhumane to be any different.” http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/adoption.trauma.7/posts/329901923758616?notif_t=feed_comment_reply
I feel the same way as Lynn Beisner: "But for many women, like my mother, abortion would be an inconvenient act of courage and selflessness. I am sad for both of us that she could not find the courage and selflessness. But my attitude is that as long as I am already here, I might as well do all I can to make the world a better place, to ease the suffering of others, and to experience love and life to its fullest."
Mr. X: The scare tactics that the Left uses against women and minorities are utterly disgraceful...Talk about sociopaths!
Sylvie: I think the scare tactics of the far right are a lot more utterly disgraceful; they go to the extreme of killing doctors and breathing, living human beings under the guise of wanting to protect unborn life, like unborn life has more rights than lived life. Talk about hypocrisy and being a psychopath/sociopath.
Mr. X: Anyway, in my personal experience, conservatives have been the most generous, kind, compassionate, and understanding people I've ever met. Liberals, in my experience, have generally been the most selfish, pretentious, and all-talk-no-walk kind of people.
Sylvie: If you were free of repression and did not have the repressed emotions of the child you once were blinding you, you would be able to see that most people, whether conservative or liberal, are just pretending, acting as if their personality is pretending to be loving and caring, giving an illusion of love; they just wear different masks, that’s all. Most of my life, I have felt that people in our society work hard behind the scenes to create traps and are very sneaky. Without you noticing, they push you into their traps when no one is looking, then they come and rescue you, making themselves appear as heroes. Still, they are the ones trapping you in the first place, and if you don’t wake up to see this scheme for what it is, you will fall victim to it endlessly.
Mr. X: I don't think we should discuss politics.
Sylvie: We don’t have to discuss politics, but we have to discuss abortion. Politics wouldn't be an issue if politicians stayed out of my body.
I know you might be feeling very split right now, and this is normal. I know it can be painful and some relationships might end, but if they end, it is because they were not based on real feelings, but on fear, guilt, and anger unconsciously and compulsively projected at outward enemies, like, for example, the Tea Party joining together unconsciously and compulsively transferring their repressed hate into the Democrats and vice versa. You see how the political parties make each other’s scapegoats or poisonous containers, and they remain stuck because repression cannot ever be resolved through scapegoating. And you will come to see that your vote is driven by the dead hand of your own repression, because you are unconsciously taking revenge on vulnerable women who might need help in getting an abortion in order to keep the image of your loving mother intact. Still, if your mother was able to really love you, you would never be attracted to a political party in the first place, unconsciously trying to fulfill a need of the child you once were. Still, nothing in the external world can now make up for what you needed as a child; you can only consciously mourn the loss of the love you needed as a child but never got.
The truth brings freedom. In Alice Miller’s book, “The Truth Will Set You Free: Overcoming Emotional Blindness and Finding Your True Adult Self,” she says, “The past always catches up with us, in our relationships with other people and especially with our children.”
We must face the pain in our lives. The only way out is through it. Nothing in the external world, not a religion, not a political group or any other group, not a job, not a relationship, and not any amount of money can save us from the pain of our past. Until we walk through our pain, we will keep repeating our past in the present moment, and there is no escape.
"Pain is the way to the truth. By denying that you were unloved as a child, you spare yourself some pain, but you are not with your own truth. And throughout your whole life, you'll try to earn love. In therapy, avoiding pain causes blockage. Yet nobody can confront neglect or hatred without feeling guilty. "It is my fault that my mother is cruel," he thinks. "I made my mother furious; what can I do to make her loving?" So he will continue trying to make her love him. The guilt is really a protection against the terrible realization that you are fated to have a mother who cannot love. This is much more painful than to think, "Oh, she is a good mother; it's only me who's bad." Because then you can try to do something to get love. But it's not true; you cannot earn love. And feeling guilty for what has been done to you only supports your blindness and your neurosis."
I know it's hard to feel this pain, but it can be endured, and I was able to endure it all alone with just Alice Miller’s books. I know you can too.
People have been trying to control and manipulate others with the reins of the feelings of guilt that were installed by our parents, and now substitute figures only have to take hold of those reins. I know I can help you remove the reins installed by your parents and be free if you let me, so there will not be any longer reins for people to take hold of to control or manipulate you anymore and of course people that need to be in control of others might leave you and go look for someone else with reins on to take control of. You will have to feel the pain of losing these people, but you will be free and make room for real people to enter your life. Anyway, it’s better to be alone and know that we are alone than to be with someone and nevertheless be alone.
Wishing courage and strength to face and feel your painful truths.
Congratulations for your courage,
Sylvie
Sure, Sylvie. I was horrified when I woke up this morning and saw those two just being hateful all over the place, but this is something you and I are used to dealing with on the Net. I figured there wasn't any point in joining the fray if, as you mentioned, L is not going to ditch those people.
I feel sorry for L and hope he finds a way out someday.
Talk to you later,
J
Hi J,
I did not read L’s full comments this morning and I just read most of it right now, but I did not finish reading it, because he is just making me his scapegoat or poisonous container! It just shows how lost he still is unconsciously and compulsively making innocent people that have nothing to do with his anger and pain, but I was just the trigger of it and by making me the scapegoat or poisonous container he loses a great opportunity to resolve this hate and free himself. Sadly I see him dependent on his real abusers and on the disability check from the government for his whole life and therefore will not be able to feel his hate in the right context and endless needing scapegoats to relieve his pent up anger, very sad.
These words Alice wrote to me became very true once again.
AM: I have learned over the years of my work on the internet that there are readers who SEEM to understand SOME of what I have written, at least intellectually, but they are still so afraid of their very cruel parents and of their repressed FEELINGS of rage towards them that they are constantly looking for scapegoats. They thus live in a continual confusion pretending that they are healed and even offering help and empathy to others. But eventually, they use unconsciously other people (even the ones who are quite friendly to them) as a poisonous container like their parents did to them, and if the offended people begin to defend themselves they can become very mean. I can only urge you to trust your feelings and to NOT offer your empathy and interest to everybody just because they say they read and understood everything I have written. In most of the cases, it is a lie. To understand my books means to overcome the fear of one’s parents, to honestly feel the justified rage TOWARD THEM and to no longer use others to getting free from the accumulated rage.
Again thanks for your support
Sylvie
What Alice says, it is very true. Especially the part about them understanding just enough of this stuff intellectually. An advanced ego defense is intellectualization, which I find people doing a lot after years of the older, less sophisticated defense mechanism can no longer shield them from the facts about their abusive history.
Stef also talks a lot about how people will try to make the enlightened witness/philosopher so angry and fed up with humanity that they become withdrawn and stop trying to help the world. I want to avoid stepping into that trap. I will help people regardless of how many adult victims wish to project on me.
Thank you very much, Sylvie.
J
I think I read it and I too did not bother saying anything either, because I could feel L is not open for real feedback and I could tell if we express our true perceptions and he did not agree with it he would come out swinging viciously the same way his childhood abusers intimidate him. And now that I expressed to him how I truthful saw his situation he came out viciously with personal attacks toward me and Alice Miller. He still among my friends on Facebook, but he has been restricted and cannot see everything I post. Me too I want to avoid stepping into that trap and keep on trying exposing abusers and give support to people that really want to help themselves to break free from their emotional prison.
Congratulations on liberating yourself and not letting other people’s projections stopping you.
I wish much success in this very important work you are doing and again thank you for your support,
Sylvie
I just remember now having the chat below with D when L made Stefan Molyneux his scapegoat. D wrote to me asking for my thoughts on what L had written. I thought you might like to read the words I wrote at the bottom.
August 22Sen...t from Chat
D
can you chat by chance?
August 22Sent from Chat
Sylvie Imelda Shene
I am not too busy right now, but I am at work and things can change.
August 22Sent from Chat
D
sure, I understand 9same here). could we maybe schedule a time for a skype convo? I wanted to get your thoughts/feedback on what L has written
August 22Sent from Chat
Sylvie Imelda Shene
I am reading L notes too!
August 22Sent from Chat
D
ok
I'd like to know your thoughts on how (or even if) to respond
August 22
Sylvie Imelda Shene
I am thinking about to respond if I can find the right words. He has some valid points, and maybe the words Stefan picked are not the best ones like if we were rejected as a child we will desire rejection, of course at the conscious level we don’t desire rejection, but unconsciously and compulsively we will be attracted to people that will reenact our childhood drama because unconsciously we still have the illusion that we can change our childhood abuser now in the substitute figures standing in symbolizing our parents or childhood caretakers and finally get the love we been longing for all of our lives, but it will never happen and we only get better after we let go of that illusion and face the fact that no one can ever make up for the love that we needed as a child and now only us can learn to love and care for ourselves. I see L stuck in his story and not able to get out looking for someone with a miracle to save him like he has the illusion that if he could afford primal therapy with Arthur Janov, he would get better, but regression therapy can be very dangerous because it can make people addictive to pain and keep people stuck in the state of the helpless child. I am free to talk for a little bit at 2:45PM my time, Let me know if you are available at that time. Sylvie