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Monday, August 8, 2022

I Will no Longer Be on Social Media

Scroll down for an AI-polished version of this blog—same heart, clearer words.

"The Emperor's New Clothes" is a fairy tale. In reality, the kid who points out that the emperor is naked will get murdered. 

https://sylvieshene.blogspot.com/2022/08/the-emperors-new-clothes.html

This is why I have been harassed, prosecuted, and ostracized by very bad players most of my life, starting with my first-grade teacher and especially in the workplace, since I published my book, because, with my book, I point out that the emperors of the world are naked. In this world, seeing and feeling, people are the most discriminated against, no matter what color or background. I have been the target of bad players in every color and background. 

Never too late to get real! First, with yourself and then, if you choose, with the whole world, but what's important is that you must become real, at least in private, with yourself if you want to die free and not in an emotional prison. 

If you do choose to go public with your story, make sure you really have resolved your childhood repression and you are no longer blinded by the repressed emotions of the child you once were.

Otherwise, you might not be able to see clearly the mind games and the traps the sociopaths of the world targeting you put in front of you to trap you and bring you back into an emotional prison. 

And you will be endlessly stuck in your story in an emotional prison with little chance of ever escaping. If I had not truly resolved my childhood repression, I would not have survived a mob of sociopaths targeting me after I published my book. 

I no longer have the patience and time for people who use their sharp intellect to go around in circles in their heads to avoid facing their own painful truths.

All of my life, I have been working undercover to witness the depths of humanity's repression and corruption.  I have learned humanity's corruption or evil is bottomless -- it's very ugly -- most people are acting as if personality pretending to be good people but are wolves in sheep's clothing, and if you trigger their unresolved childhood repression, their meanness, and cruelty, it has no end. Publishing my book was the ultimate test that gave me all the proof.

My work undercover is coming to an end, and I will be retiring soon and walking into the sunset and live happily ever after in peace and tranquility!  I have given up on humanity, and I consider myself divorced from humanity. 

I think Russia might have started World War 3, and we all might get nuked soon, anyway, so I'm going to enjoy all my days left on this Earth away from toxic people.

I'm tired of dealing with sociopaths at every corner I take and I will not get out of my way anymore to try to reach others that are in the same place I once was; if people want the naked truth and leave behind the world of lies and illusions, they will have to go underground and dig for the naked truth like I did because without the naked truth -- true liberation and healing --  is not possible. I will still try to write back to anyone, and mean ANYONE, family or not, that finds me and reaches out to me -- you might not like my answers, but you can be assured I will give you an honest answer. But I'm done with social media. Social media is all about creating pretty illusions and pretty seductive lies. 

If you have read my book, you know who Marty is! Before I met Marty, I used to be a very private person, sharing very little of myself with others. Now I'm going back to being the very private person I once was. 

For now, I will just keep this blog. If there is anything I like to share with the world, I will only share it here, and if people find it helps them gather the courage to leave the world of lies and illusions behind, and liberate themselves. Great! Being supportive of others is all I have ever wanted.   

I have deleted most of my social media accounts. Twitter and LinkedIn, I had no trouble deleting them, but Instagram and my personal Facebook page are giving me a hard time deleting them. 

When I click the button to deactivate accounts, I keep getting a query error, which is very annoying because I feel like I'm being held hostage by Facebook/Meta and they are forcing me to just abandon my pages. 

They like to control and block my truthful posts but they don't want me to deactivate my accounts because I'm sure they just want to keep the numbers of subscribers up because that's how they make money -- it's all about the math for them -- and they could care less about truth and humanity. 

I have been on Facebook for over 10 years and have not gotten much out of it! With any other relationship, I would have broken up a long time ago. I can't believe I stayed with Facebook this long without getting much back.

All they care about is money, power, and control. Facebook/Meta blocks the truth -- and allows the lies and illusions to spread like wildfires feeding the violence and all the wars around the world; therefore, Facebook is part of the problem and is evil. 

Facebook has been censoring me for many years, as you can see in the link below:

https://sylvieshene.blogspot.com/2011/05/i-am-being-censored-by-facebook.html

The wall of silence is everywhere, and why would it be any different online?! And yes, self-censoring means a lot of important information never gets shared, but seductive pretty lies and illusions with disconnected half-truths, and feel-good disconnect stories that work like medication to keep us numb, they get a lot of sharing and likes. 

People love to be distracted from their own painful truths and from doing the most important work in their lives -- doing their own emotional work. 

“This kind of self-censoring can mean that important information is never shared. Some had hoped that social media might provide new outlets that encourage more discussion and the exchange of a wider range of opinions. But we see the opposite – a spiral of silence exists online, too.”

Where there is 'control', there is ALWAYS abuse.



On YouTube, I only left the Big Brother video and deleted all others. 

As long as people are too afraid to face their own painful truths and consciously feel the repressed emotions of the child they once were within the context of their own childhood, they will be driven by the dead hand of their own repression into the state of repetitive compulsion to endless reenact their disastrous childhood dramas and no matter what anyone says or does, or how well someone articulates great ideas and pretty theories -- nothing matters in this world -- humanity is on the path to self-destruct -- and with the aid of technology -- it's going to self-destruct much faster -- humanity it's doomed. And there is nothing anyone can do or say to change this.

Every time a person goes off the deep end and takes others with them, like many dictators and mass shooters do. People say they need to raise awareness about mental health, remove the stigma, and make mental health a priority. But don't be fooled most people even those in the mental health field don't care about your mental health, if they did, they would not lie to you, they would not play mind games with you and they would find the courage to tell you the naked truth -- because without it -- true liberation and healing is not possible. 

"Children who are told the truth and are not brought up to tolerate lies and cruelty can develop as freely as a plant whose roots have not been attacked by pests (in our case, lies)" Alice Miller 

"Unfortunately, narcissists in positions of high visibility or power-particularly in the so-called helping professions (medicine, education, and the ministry) -often do great harm to others."

Communities are micros of the world and If people cared about mental health I would not have been the target of a psychological warfare by a mob of bad players at the community where I worked for nine and a half years after I published my book sharing my life experiences and psychological discoveries -- at this community -- they were medical doctors, psychologists, psychiatrist doctors and even the ones that were not part of psychological warfare, they stayed silent on the sidelines looking at me stone-faced waiting to see if I would burn and crash. The silence from those on the sidelines is the worst.

If it was me, the little woman to commit a crime, and self-destruct my name and face would have been splashed all over the news stations! And then all the "experts" would come out of the woodwork and take ownership of my story to spin it in any direction they wanted. 

Probably all go on TV talking about how disturbed the little woman was -- to discredit me and my book --and make a name for themselves by standing on my head. And all probably say that you need "God in your life", my ex-boss was a Mormon, a man of God, but he was the one to lose his mind, but now is a big cover-up. I could see their games and traps so clearly. I was their target to destroy, but when was one of them to self-destruct, all became silent, and no one cared that these criminals with their projections and lies -- I lost my job and more than half of my income  -- AND they could have destroyed my life completely.

Most people's objective in life is not freedom for themselves and others. Most people's objective in life is to one day own their own slaves.

Most people only care about themselves and create bubbles around themselves to feel safe. They don't realize that their unresolved childhood repression will catch up with them and their bubbles and illusions will burst from within sooner or later in one form or another.

Suppose you truly break free and the system finds out. In that case, it will gather all the forces at its command to try to bring you back into the emotional prison --- remember the system doesn't want you to be free -- the system wants to keep you in an emotional prison and treat you with medications and manipulative therapies to keep you subdued, obedient and well behaved without a chance of breaking free from your emotional prison --- your freedom is the last thing the system wants --- It's a game they are playing, a cat and mouse game, a very dirty game they play to keep their own fears at bay of having to face and feel their own tragic repressed childhoods.

There are many people online articulating very well how the narcissist's mind works and how to deal with them, but very few mention the reason why people become full-blown narcissists and sociopaths?! So most likely, many are narcissists, themselves - talking a good talk without doing the emotional work and liberating themselves first.

The reason many people become narcissists and sociopaths is that they grew up with lies and had very tragic traumatic childhoods and because they can't face and feel this painful truth and consciously feel the repressed emotions of the child they once were within the context of their own childhood -- this is why people grow into full-blown malignant narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths...

Most people rather idealize their parents and childhoods, and to survive, they have learned the art of projection and transference to perfection -- they go through life unconsciously and compulsively looking for scapegoats to use as poison containers to temporarily and superficially alleviate their own repression -- so they can have the illusion that they are perfect, better and superior to others and they rather kill and be killed than face and feel their own painful truths. 

They endless are driven by the repressed emotions of the child they once were to hurt themselves, others, or both. I don't see many saying that there is people's denial and the repressed emotions that turn many into -- people of the lie -- and become full-blown sociopaths, malignant narcissists, assholes, bad players, or whatever you like to call these evil people.  

Just like I wrote in my book on pages 144 and 145, "Thanks to Alice Miller, I came to understand that the widespread repression of early traumas is the great malady of
our society. If we look closely enough, we can see that this repression is responsible for most of our individual troubles, as well as our societal ills. It appears symptomatically in
illnesses, obsessions, addictions, violence, greed, deceit, and loss of meaning. And it can lead to cruelty, violence, and criminal behavior. So many of us carry on as if all this perverse behavior is normal, while most of us who really want to find a way out go down the wrong path. All too often, we follow false prophets who get us to believe that eradicating individual
symptoms is the way to solve our problems. Little do we know that in doing so, we always fail to get to the real heart of the matter — the denial and repression of childhood suffering."

Let me make it clear if you have unresolved childhood repression you will be blind by the unresolved repressed emotions of the child you once were and if you become the target of a sociopath or a malignant narcissist you will not see the emotional manipulations and traps these bad players set up for you -- and no matter -- how many very well articulated advice and tips you get on how to deal with these bad players -- you will fall prey into their traps and it will be very hard to escape from and you might not survive.

Also, in my book on pages 172 and 173, "Resolving childhood repression is the vaccine against the charlatans of the world who exploit those who are still emotionally blinded by the unresolved, repressed emotions of the children they once were.

Once you’re free, your whole outlook on life is going to change. This quote, from a patient of Alice Miller’s, expresses what happens perfectly: “The world has not changed. There is so much evil and meanness all around me, and I see it even more clearly than before. However, for the first time, I find life really worth living. Perhaps this is because, for the first time, I have the feeling that I am really living my own life. And that is an exciting adventure. On the other hand, I can understand my suicidal ideas better now, especially those I had in my youth — when it seemed pointless to carry on — because in a way I had always been living a life that wasn’t mine, that I didn’t want, and that I was ready to throw away.”80

I’ve removed all the barriers of false morality and am totally free to experience all my feelings, take them seriously and decide whom, if anyone, to share them with. I’ve faced my past and can deal with my present circumstances in the context of growing awareness instead of childhood fears. These words by Alice Miller express how I exactly feel: “If I allow myself to feel what pains or gladdens me, what annoys or enrages me, and why this is the case, if I know what I need and what I do not want at all costs, I will know myself well enough to love my life and find it interesting, regardless of age or social status. … I will know that I have
lived my own, true life.”81

It really is a powerful feeling, and you’re likely to find yourself possessing a power that will be threatening to a lot of people. Society is on the side of the status quo, so be prepared. As Alice Miller writes in Free from Lies, going against the parents “is a source of major alarm for others … They will sometimes mobilize all the forces at their command to discredit the former victim and thus keep their own repression intact.”82

But thanks to Alice Miller, I’m content to be who I am regardless of what other people think. This passage, from Breaking Down the Wall of Silence, sums it up so well: “To live with one’s own truth is to be at home with oneself. That is the opposite of isolation. We only need confirmation when we are alienated from ourselves and in flight from the truth. All the friends and devoted admirers in the world cannot make up for the loss.”83

When I die, I will not be sad because I have truly lived and will die in freedom, no longer scared and no longer a captive of the emotional prison into which I was born." 

After I published my book, all the sociopaths at my job felt threatened by my knowledge and sure enough, they all gathered the forces at their command to try to destroy me and discredit me and my book. 

I'm sure the sociopaths at my last job had never met anyone before me who I had truly resolved childhood repression. And thought my knowledge was just intellectual, like theirs, 
They didn't believe what I wrote in my book that I had faced and resolved my childhood repression, and I had broken free from my emotional prison. And I'm sure they were confident that they could bring me back into an emotional prison. Big mistake! Underestimating me has always been people's biggest mistake.

"Narcissists aren't inconsiderate of your feelings. On the contrary, they are extremely considerate of your feelings. Your feelings are exactly what they are trying to affect. They closely observe how you react every time they do something to hurt you. And they are like sharks, able to smell a drop of blood a mile away. Why? Because your hurt feelings are their pain-killing drug. They are addicted to it. Ever since childhood. That's what their illness is, an addiction." Kathy Krajco

Hurting and destroying others' lives is their pain-killing drug. It's an addiction that keeps their own childhood repression intact. Just like I wrote in my book A Dance to Freedom, page 118: "... as long our pain remains repressed, we will unconsciously and compulsively do to others what was once done to us." 

As long as people's childhood repression goes unresolved, they will endlessly unconsciously and compulsively look for scapegoats to take revenge for the wrongs done to them when they were defenseless little children to temporarily and superficially alleviate their childhood repression...

And as Alice Miller wrote in the answers below to one of her readers:

"I am also glad that you have the hope that we can pass on our knowledge to the masses. I had this hope 30 years ago when I wrote the Drama. I thought that showing the truth can change so much. Meanwhile, I became more skeptical or just more impatient after I discovered the fear of the beaten child in all of us that built up the omnipresent resistance against the truth." Alice Miller

(Me too, I had the hope that with the writing of my book would help pass this knowledge to the masses, but like Alice Miller, I have become skeptical, and with the writing of my book, I too learned that people's repressed fears at the parents build omnipresent resistance against the truth. And people would rather destroy others than face and consciously feel their own repressed fears to see the truth. And this is why I have been harassed, prosecuted, and ostracized in the workplace by bad players since I published my book. I understand people's fears of their childhood pain that have been trying to keep repressed all of their lives, but it is still disappointing that pretty much everyone I meet doesn't have the courage to face their fears and become real.   

I don't know a single person in this world with whom I would like to switch places! Until the day I die, I have created a little heaven on earth for myself. And no one can steal that from me. I'm at home at last. 

"Sometimes people try to destroy you, precisely because they recognize your power, not because they don't see it, but because they see it and they don't want it to exist." Yes, this is another reason I get targeted by bad players since I published my book. They don't want me and my power to exist. 

"Imagine growing up treated as if you're hard to love... later realizing you were the most worthy of them all... finding you've been surrounded by toxic people full of self-hate who gained light by putting out yours. An insight that makes you invincible."  Yes, realizing that others are not more worthy or superior to me was very liberating.  

"Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses." ~Plato~

I have to agree. “A writer writes not because he is educated but because he is driven by the need to communicate. Behind the need to communicate is the need to share. Behind the need to share is the need to be understood. The writer wants to be understood much more than he wants to be respected or praised or even loved.” ― Leo Rosten

Polished version by ChatGPT below. 

I’m Done With Social Media — And With Humanity’s Illusions

“The Emperor’s New Clothes” is a fairy tale. In reality, the child who dares to say the emperor is naked risks being murdered.

That’s been my reality. From my first-grade teacher to colleagues decades later, I’ve been harassed, attacked, and ostracized for seeing — and speaking — the truth most people cannot face.

My crime? Daring to expose the naked emperors of the world. Publishing my book shattered the illusions of many. When you refuse to lie, manipulate, or play mind games, you become a threat — especially to those still trapped in childhood repression.

In this world, truth-tellers — not liars — are the ones condemned. Repression knows no color, race, or background. Evil wears many faces, but its root is always the same: unresolved childhood pain projected onto others.

You Must First Free Yourself

It’s never too late to face your own truth. That is the only path to freedom. But be warned: until you have fully resolved your childhood repression, you will remain vulnerable to sociopaths who will mirror your unhealed wounds and trap you in their toxic games.

Had I not fully confronted my past before publishing my book, I wouldn’t have survived the psychological warfare waged against me. The ultimate test of my liberation came when the mob tried to destroy me. They failed — because I was already free.

I No Longer Have Time for Self-Deceivers

For years, I’ve witnessed the bottomless corruption of humanity. People pretend to be good while hiding their true nature. When their wounds are triggered, cruelty pours out. I’ve seen it everywhere — including among “healers,” “helpers,” and so-called “spiritual” leaders.

Even in my own workplace, after publishing my book, doctors, psychologists, and religious leaders either attacked me or silently watched, hoping I would collapse. Their silence was the deepest betrayal. Had I committed a crime, the media would have paraded my face as a trophy. But instead, my ex-boss — a self-proclaimed man of God — was the one to unravel. Today, the truth is buried. They underestimated me. They always have.

“Narcissists aren’t blind to your feelings. They’re addicted to your pain.”
— Kathy Krajco

“As long as our pain remains repressed, we will unconsciously and compulsively do to others what was once done to us.”
— A Dance to Freedom

This is why people endlessly scapegoat others instead of facing their own childhood tragedies. Most would rather destroy others — or themselves — than confront the truth.

Social Media Feeds the Lie

I’ve walked away from social media entirely. These platforms profit from illusion, distraction, and lies. They censor truth, but refuse to let users leave, trapping accounts for profit. They are part of the very evil they pretend to oppose.

“Some had hoped that social media might encourage open discussion, but instead, a spiral of silence exists online too.”
— from a 2016 article on my blog

Wherever there’s control, there’s always abuse. Self-censorship keeps truth hidden while comforting lies spread like wildfire. Most people don’t want healing — they want distraction.

Humanity Has Made Its Choice

Mass shootings and violence erupt, and people chant about “raising awareness” for mental health. Yet most — even many mental health professionals — refuse to face the root: repressed childhood pain.

“Children who are told the truth and not brought up to tolerate lies and cruelty can develop freely, like a plant whose roots have not been attacked by pests.”
— Alice Miller

Tragically, many who enter helping professions are deeply wounded themselves — and end up perpetuating harm while wearing masks of virtue.

“The widespread repression of early traumas is the great malady of our society. It underlies most personal and societal ills — from illness, addiction, and violence to greed, deceit, and the loss of meaning.”
— A Dance to Freedom

Resolving childhood repression is the only true vaccine against manipulators. But this demands radical honesty — and few are willing.

“Those able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood — let alone believed — by the masses.”
— Plato

“Sometimes people try to destroy you not because they don’t see your power — but because they do.”
— Anonymous

“They will mobilize all forces to discredit the former victim to keep their own repression intact.”
— Alice Miller

My Heaven Is Built — And It Is Untouchable

Thanks to Alice Miller’s work, I no longer need anyone’s validation. My liberation is complete. I have built my heaven on earth, and no one can take it away.

“To live with one’s own truth is to be at home with oneself.”
— Alice Miller

The world hasn’t changed — but I have. And that is enough.

I am done with illusions, done with self-deceivers, and done with the endless repetition of humanity’s unresolved wounds. Those who seek the truth will have to dig as I did — underground, alone, free.

Until my last breath, I remain free. That is all I ever wanted.



Thursday, September 21, 2023

Russell Brand is in the Hot Seat

First of all, I have never been a fan of Russel Brand because he is just another very articulate charlatan casting himself as a cult leader. I have always felt behind his talent that something dark lies hidden... 

But, it's very possible that the media no longer protects him because he became too critical of the established media and became a threat to the status quo, and now they are no longer protecting him and exposing his past crimes to silence him. I always say that the past always catches up with us in our relationships with others, and especially with our children, if we have any.

From my experience, if the status quo feels threatened by you, they will start looking for something they can use against you and if they can't find anything, they will start a very well-orchestrated psychological warfare to manipulate you to make a mistake so they can point their fingers at you to take the focus out of them to cover up their own crimes and wrongdoing. It's a very dirty game they play.

We need to believe former victims and investigate because if these allegations are true, he needs to be accountable. 

I, too, am a former victim of sexual abuse when I was 17 years old by the famous psychiatrist Dr. Julio Machado Vaz in Portugal. I have been trying to tell my story for over 20 years, and I'm still waiting to be heard. Now the question is: why does the media in Portugal protect this famous doctor?! Obviously, he must be a puppet to the media, and so they protect him.  

In the book Boundaries: Where You End And I Begin, Anne Katherine states, “A therapist is entrusted with his or her clients’ deepest secrets. A minister bestows sanctions from the highest power in the universe. The potential for harm is overwhelming. For a person in such a role, essentially that of a guardian, to cross sexual boundaries is a grave violation. A child, a client, a patient, a follower, or a worshiper is vulnerable and usually approaches authority out of need. A sexual action by a guardian is very confusing, even to a very strong and healthy individual. For someone vulnerable and in need, such an action can be devastating. When a parent is sexual toward a child, the violation reverberates for decades. Trust is broken, the child takes on responsibility for the act, sexuality is affected, and the bond is damaged. When a therapist, physician, attorney, or clergy person has a sexual relationship with a client or worshiper, it is also incest. A trust is broken, a bond is perverted. The person who sought care was used to meet the needs of the caregiver.”33 

"The Emperor's New Clothes" is a fairy tale. In reality, the kid who points out that the emperor is naked will get murdered. 

https://sylvieshene.blogspot.com/2022/08/the-emperors-new-clothes.html

This is why I have been harassed, prosecuted, and ostracized by very bad players most of my life, starting with my first-grade teacher and especially in the workplace, since I published my book, because with my book, I point out that the emperors of the world are naked. In this world, seeing and feeling people are the most discriminated against, no matter what color or background. I have been the target of bad players in every color and background. 

https://sylvieshene.blogspot.com/2022/08/i-will-no-longer-be-on-social-media.html

Also, read about Dr. Johnnie Barto, a sexual predator pediatrician, gets up to 158 years in prison

Will More Women in Portugal Find the Courage to Report Dr. Julio Machado Vaz's Sexual Abuse?

Outonecer: When a Predator Performs Wisdom in Autumn

Saturday, November 9, 2019

The Dangers of Narcissism in Politics

A Facebook friend shared with me the Understanding Narcissism Summit "The Dangers of Narcissism in Politics" This mental health professional seems to be authentic and the things he says are very accurate! He is showing a lot of courage -- a must-read. 

These words are so true! "Even as they are bullying and aggressing, they will call themselves victims. And so these are the kinds of things that will pressure you to do the opposite of what is needed." 

That's exactly what the malignant narcissists did at my job of nine and a half years after I publish my book "A Dance to Freedom" sharing my life experiences and psychological discoveries. You can read more in the link below if you like about my experience with a mob of sociopaths.
https://sylvieshene.blogspot.com/2016/06/for-sociopath-winning-is-all.html

I find malignant narcissists in the mental health profession to be -- just as dangerous as those in politics -- if not more dangerous -- besides Dr. Alice Miller -- every mental health professional I have met has tried to manipulate my feelings, perceptions and change my reality!  
I kind of have given up on humanity! Especially those in the mental health profession -- pretty much most of them -- have only intellectual knowledge -- talking a good talk – but they themselves have not resolved their own childhood repression and use their knowledge in psychology to play with people’s minds.  
To prevent a malignant narcissist Like Donald Trump to get into power at the highest level is to expose them at the local level.  Like I wrote in my blog Big Cover-Up sharing about my experience with a mob of very bad players, sociopaths or whatever you like to call them.
 “Everyone is focused on the sociopaths in the white house, but how we prevent sociopaths from getting into the highest office of the land is to expose them and their corruption at the local level. 
We fight corruption from the bottom up and not from the top, but as we witnessed at my place of work -- where I worked for nine and half years -- no one had the courage to expose the sociopaths and their corruption. And no one cares that my livelihood was almost destroyed by these very bad players."
If people really are serious about saving the world we need to start the conversation about the dangers of childhood repression in the stage of the world -- until then -- no matter what anyone says -- and does -- it will not matter -- it might help us feel a little better in the short term -- but in the long run -- nothing will change -- and humanity will continue to be driven by the dead hand of their own repression to covertly or overtly destroy themselves and others.
I agree with Dr. Lee that the enablers around the president are the real problem. I have been saying it for a long time: the world is messed up because of the powerful enablers around the malignant narcissists. The media is the most powerful enabler and full of malignant narcissists also.
-------------------------------------//-----------------------------------------

Understanding Narcissism Summit “The Dangers of Narcissism in Politics” Bandy X. Lee, MD, MDiv [MUSIC PLAYING] 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Understanding Narcissism Summit. My name is Dr. Jeffrey Rutstein. And today I’d like to introduce assistant clinical professor and forensic psychologist at Yale University, Dr. Bandy X. Lee. As the author of the New York Times best-selling book The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump, I’m thrilled to speak with Bandy today to discuss the topic of narcissism, dangerousness, and positions of power. Welcome, Bandy. Thank you for joining us. 

BANDY LEE: Thank you very much for having me. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So I want to tell you that this book that you and your colleagues put together has been so helpful to me, so helpful to my colleagues, that I feel very honored that you’re here today to join us. And I’d like to start with a basic question for some of our viewers who may not be familiar with you or the book. What motivated you to gather together your esteemed colleagues and take on this publication? 

BANDY LEE: Well, there was an occurrence in that there was a presidential election in 2016. And actually, a close colleague of mine from many years ago, Dr. Judith Herman, had written a letter to, at the time, President Barack Obama about her concerns of the mental instability of the new president-elect. And she and two other wonderful women colleagues have written a request that the 
president perform a mental health exam on the new president-elect

And I actually agreed with that. My concerns were just as high. And of course, nothing really happened. 

And he proceeded into the position. And we could foresee, at that point, all the dangers that would unfold for the years to come. In fact, what has unfolded through this presidency has been exact in terms of the type of dangers that would manifest, as well as our timeline was very precise. 

In other words, our understanding of the personality traits and the character traits that we were seeing and the signs of danger were very much as we saw them. And human behavior is not random. It follows a certain pattern. 

And the patterns are often pervasive. And so what we understood to be of concern at the time turned out to be, unfortunately. So what I did at the time was, when I was trying to gather-- I was hoping to write similar letters to Congress members at the time and tried to gather signatures among my colleagues. 

And at the time, whenever I would have conversations with my colleagues, they had the same opinion. In other words, the dangerousness we saw was near consensus among all my colleagues. But they wouldn’t put their name to the letters, because usually, the reasons I would hear about or concerns about keeping their license. 

They thought they would be litigated against by this litigious president and be fighting for their licenses their entire careers or that they would be physically in danger by his violence-prone followers. And they would have to fear for their families and their own lives. And these were the reasons that I was sometimes given for people not signing on. 

And so I thought this wasn’t very good, that we ought to be able to speak about these things. 

And so I thought I would organize a conference, where a bunch of us would get together and have a discussion. I thought it would be wise to start with an ethics discussion. What do we do as professionals at a time like this? Should we speak up? And if so, how?  

And what were the ethical considerations? What were the duties that we had? And so I organize a conference at Yale School of Medicine. 

And it wasn’t explicitly to speak about the mental health of the president, but about the ethics of speaking up and the pros and cons, if you will. 

And in the prime auditorium space that could have seated 500 people, only about 20 showed up. 

This is after I had invited some of the most famous psychiatrists in the country. 

In fact, if you were to count the first, second, and third, I had all of them there, including Drs. Robert Jay Lifton, Judith Herman, James Gilligan, and actually one person from the American Psychiatric Association Ethics Committee. 

And so I actually thought it was a total failure. I had never organized a conference where so few people had shown up. 

But then hundreds had tuned in online. They were only afraid to be seen. But they were very interested in the content. And then thousands eventually got in touch with me from around the country and around the world. 

There was, of course, news coverage. And it was covered nationally. It was covered in at least 20 or 30 countries that I know of in Europe, and the Middle East, in Asia. 

And they were all getting in touch, in fact, so much that I was forced to form an organization. In fact, some other people got together and formed the National Coalition of Concerned Mental Health Experts to address this issue specifically. 

And we later became the World Mental Health Coalition, joining with our international partners. And it’s a coalition of mental health professionals only. 

And we are trying to step in where the American Psychiatric Association has failed in leadership, in our opinion; because, in addition to this unprecedented event of all these mental health professionals coming forth once they found out about this conference, the American Psychiatric Association also went on an unprecedented campaign to try to silence mental health professionals, using-- actually, distorting-- what is called the “Goldwater rule.” You may have heard about that rule. I can explain-- 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Can you-- yeah, please. 

BANDY LEE: --a bit more later. Or shall I explain now? 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Yes. 

BANDY LEE: Well, the Goldwater term came about because there was an incident during Barry Goldwater’s presidential campaign. 

But this was 55 years ago. Just briefly, Fact magazine put out a survey. 12,000 psychiatrists were surveyed. And about less than 10 percent-- a little more than 1,000-- made irresponsible diagnoses, made comments that were not defensible by scientific evidence at the time. 

And so Barry Goldwater lost by a landslide to Johnson. And he sued the magazine. And the psychiatric profession was embarrassed. 

Even though it really shouldn’t have been, really, news-- it was really less than 10% that were speaking irresponsibly-- the magazine had hyped it up and said, “More than 1,000 psychiatrists are calling Barry Goldwater unfit.” 

But it was only entered into the ethics guidelines-- because psychiatrists don’t really have a primary responsibility to public figures-- but we have a responsibility to promote public health and to better our communities. 

And it is a call to action. In fact, it is an affirmative obligation. So what the Goldwater rule really says is: participate in activities that improve the community and better public health. 

And when you’re asked about public figures, educate the public in general terms. Just don’t diagnose. That’s what the Goldwater rule says. 

But with Donald Trump’s campaign, the APA came out and amplified the “do not diagnose” part too, “do not say anything about any aspect of a public figure, even in a national emergency.” 

It’s actually very surprising. So basically, as a professional, you cannot say anything whatsoever, without exception. And it’s an absolute rule. 

So there’s no room even for moral agency. So if you think about the importance of information, that the public be informed, especially about danger to themselves, and in the danger in the face of tyranny, what the American Psychiatric Association did, I often make an analogy to what the attorney general did recently. 

The attorney general, who was supposed to defend the law, actually distorted the law in order to protect power. So the APA, which was supposed to uphold and set standards for professional ethics, actually distorted ethics to protect power. 

And the CEO of the APA actually later confessed that he did it to protect federal funding. 

So an association that is willing to put the public health in danger, in order not to upset the government, it actually is in conflict with the World Psychiatric Association’s universal pledge, which is the Geneva Declaration, which explicitly says that physicians are prohibited from colluding, in a sense, with a destructive regime, either through silence or active participation. 

And this came out after the experience of Nazism-- that medicine was never to be used to help a destructive regime. 

So you can see how professional ethics was distorted. 

And yet, in pretty much an unprecedented public relations campaign, the Goldwater rule became widely known, even among laypeople, whereas science and practice actually went in the opposite direction. 

And even the APA was considering discussing abolishing the rule before the Trump presidency, because science was actually going in the opposite direction. 

And diagnostic practices are no longer based on introspection, which it was during Goldwater’s time. Now it’s based on observation. 

So even the fact that you cannot diagnose without a personal exam doesn’t really hold. 

So the book was supposed to be a proceedings from the conference. 

And at this point, we had hundreds of people now willing to speak up. 

And so we collected abstracts and chose the best ones and included 27 of them in the first book. 

And that alone was another unprecedented event, in that special experts writing specialized essays in a multi-authored book becoming an instant New York Times bestseller, I think, is something that’s unheard of. 

But we felt that it spoke to the thirst among the public. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Yes. I was just going to ask you about that. That is unheard of, that a professional book like this gets such a wide reception. Did that feel gratifying? And did that tell you that there was a chord that was resonating with what you and your colleagues were sharing?

BANDY LEE: Well, we hoped for that effect, because the book, from the beginning, was meant to be a public service. 

And in order to remove any financial conflicts of interest, none of us took any revenues for it. 

And all was donated for the public good. And so we were all the more energized, if you will, to the need to educate the public and share our special knowledge, because the book had three messages.

First was that the current president was more dangerous than the public was willing to or able to perceive, and that he would grow more dangerous with time as the grandiosity and the narcissism expands, and thirdly, that eventually, he would become uncontainable. 

In other words, that level of pathology, being in a powerful position, will then spread among the general population. 

And we would not be able to respond in a way. So in a sense, we were gratified. But we also had an urgency, where we had to get this message out. 

And we had to get the message out quickly. And in fact, there was a breakthrough moment, in a sense, January of 2018, when I revealed to the public that I had met with Congress members-- in fact, more than 50 Congress-- actually, when I revealed that fact, I had met with a dozen Congress members: 11 Democrats and one Republican. 

The Republican was a little by chance while we were meeting with the staffers. 

But when I had revealed that fact, that they or intermediaries had gotten in touch with us because of the book, because of the meeting that I had organized when they had heard of this-- and at an earlier time, they even wanted me to testify before all of Congress. 

But it didn’t happen along the way. So it was this private meeting with 12 Congress members. 

I was keeping it private until it was clear to me that Congress members were not going to be able to act, that the Democrats were telling us that they felt they shared our concerns. 

In fact, many of them were deeply concerned and just as urgent and eager as we were. And they knew of Republican members who were also concerned and also considered this an urgent issue. 

But they would not let their sentiments be known to the public. 

And it was really the December tax bill, if you recall, in late 2017 when all the Republicans were rallying behind the president at that time, that’s when I started to see that it was only going to grow worse over time. 

So I decided to take on an educative role with the public. 

And so I revealed the fact that I met with Congress members and decided to no longer consult with them, because, at that point, I met with over 50 Democrats, at one point, because of a large meeting that took place. 

And I also wanted to be open to Republican Congress members. 

I’m a medical professional. I’m not a political person. I’m not doing this for any political reasons. 

It’s the medical need for public safety that I was doing this. 

And so I wanted to make sure it was clear I was open to both parties. 

So this was when I revealed it to the public. And after that, there was a firestorm of media interest. 

I was actually interviewing 14 hours a day. I could not get to any of the studios, because I was getting more requests than I could fulfill. 

And I was asked to be on all the major shows-- the biggest ones with the greatest audience on both CNN, MSNBC, even Fox News.

And at that time, I refused the biggest shows in order to keep the discussion more nuanced. And longer term, I thought it would be beneficial. 

Unfortunately, the APA did a very public campaign, denouncing me as an armchair psychiatrist, as being unethical, using psychiatry as a political tool, and using it for self-aggrandizing reasons, whereas individuals I thought were self-aggrandizing themselves came on to all these shows, using the book as an excuse, presenting themselves as examples of ethics while they were actually parroting what was in the book, but presenting the book as being the opposite of what it was, promoting the mis-impression and presenting it as breaking the Goldwater rule, whereas, in fact, we were careful not to break the Goldwater rule. 

In fact, we call out the APA of its distortion of Goldwater rule, because I, myself, have been a proponent of the Goldwater rule for 20 years. 

I’m also against changing ethical guidelines for political expedience or in submission to the political pressures. It’s especially during those times that we have to keep with professional norms and standards and keep with the evidence and science and be an example of neutrality in the face of political [INAUDIBLE]. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So after you shifted your role and you told the public about this, I understand you encountered also some blowback. 

BANDY LEE: So for a while, the mental health of the president was the number one item in the news. 

And we would have liked to have seen-- medical neutrality does not mean that you remain simply silent. 

It means that you are neutral to the pressures. You simply call out the medical situation, commensurate to what its objective presentation is. 

And so when you see a very dire situation with a great medical need for public protection, because we’re speaking about the mental stability and capacity, really, of a president to be able to fulfill the duties of his office and not to needlessly put the public in danger, not to bring on wars or, God forbid, make use of nuclear weapons, because he is in sole command over them and we have a nuclear arsenal that is able to destroy the world many times over. 

And this is a dangerous situation, even with the clearest-minded of presidents. 

But here we had a president who has shown multiple signs of danger and of severity of danger, severity of impairments. 

And so I did get a lot of blowback. So first, the APA gave the right wing media, especially, a lot of ammunition. 

They are really the ones who said, “This is an unethical psychiatrist who is breaking the Goldwater rule,” even though I hadn’t. 

I hadn’t diagnosed the president. I hadn’t expressed any conclusion. I was simply outlining the signs of danger and calling for an evaluation, specifically to avoid armchair psychiatry. 

So if you look at the distortions of the time, and once the APA came out and did this, the media stopped calling. It was precipitous, in terms of effect. And other mental health professionals became all the more reluctant to speak up, because they saw that even though this is one professional association of only one form of mental health profession-- namely, psychiatry

And psychiatry has multiple associations. The American Psychiatric Association is the main one. And it’s a guild rule. It’s a voluntary rule. They cannot enforce it on everyone. 

And I, myself, had resigned from the APA more than 10 years earlier because of their growing ties with the pharmaceutical industry. 

And those financial ties had actually changed their policies from being, in my mind, very patient-centered to now pharmaceutical treatment-centered. 

And now we see their government funding playing a role, in that they are public figure-protective-- a public figure who is not a patient and not one of our primary responsibilities. 

The APA ethical guidelines themselves say in their preamble that our primary responsibility is to patients, as well as to society. 

So those are our primary responsibilities. So they were willing to stop us from fulfilling our societal responsibility in order to protect a non-patient public figure, to protect their own funding. 

So I think this is important to highlight, because if professionals stop being thinking intellectuals and hand over their moral agency and become technicians who will simply do what they’re told, not only does that enable tyranny, it also allows for professional associations to operate unchecked. 

And we actually compared what the American Psychiatric Association had done-- manipulating ethical guidelines in this way under political pressure-- to what the American Psychological Association did not too long ago under the Iraq war. 

Under governmental pressure, it actually became an architect and facilitator of torture and used their psychological knowledge for effective torture and human rights abuses when medical knowledge is meant for humanitarian purposes. 

And that was the intent of the Universal Pledge of the Declaration of Geneva, which is considered the modern Hippocratic Oath. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So you were victimized by the professional association that’s supposed to represent psychiatrists. And that was just the tip of the iceberg, because I also know that you got death threats, too, didn’t you? 

BANDY LEE: Yes. There was about a month or so. I was actually on Twitter. Someone suggested it’s a good way to correct misconceptions. 

But not knowing there were bots and trolls, I was getting 1,000 messages of threats and death threats a day by Twitter, and also by email and voice messages. 

And there were postings around the internet of my office location, saying that we needed to put this doctor out before he puts out the president. 

And so there was about a month when I was afraid to go outside.

And I didn’t go to my office. And I went out in disguise only. But when the death threats stopped, that was disheartening, as well, because it meant that our voice no longer mattered. And the powers that be had won. And so after that, I felt that we missed a key opportunity when the public was really listening and the media were really presenting the situation as it was, instead of doing this dance of turning everything political and pretending that mental health issues do not exist and pretending that this is a normal presidency. 

And that is actually the next stage of danger, when you start normalizing a malignant situation. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Right. And I want us to go to that. But before we go to that, do you believe that the death threats and the hatred that you had thrown at you, do you feel in some ways that that’s an expression of some of the dangerousness that the president himself has helped unleash? 

BANDY LEE: Oh, yes, absolutely. When you have an authority figure who is violence-prone himself, not only does he demonstrate violence-- verbal aggression, incitement to violence, taunting hostile nations with nuclear power, threatening and showing attraction to powerful weapons and nuclear weapons-- not only that, but also promoting violence and condoning violence, simply saying that neo-Nazis and the counter demonstrators are the same, have the moral equivalency, gives those who are violence-prone and prone to terrorism a legitimacy and would not only increase-- and by now we’ve seen multiple incidents not only in this country, but abroad-- of people who engage in mass murders or terrorism sucking their inspiration from the president. 

But that’s actually only the tip of the iceberg. The real violence is the unspoken daily murders. And now we know that we have unprecedented spikes in hate crimes that happened since the day after election and have continued unabated. 

We have unprecedented levels of-- we had a doubling of white supremacist killings. And we have a 25-year high of gun murders and 25-year highs of suicide rates that had been going up-- gun murders had been going up since his campaign. 

Suicide rates had been steadily going up. But all of these have accelerated. 

And we know that violence is not random. And even individual violence is actually more inspired by social, cultural, and political factors. 

And so there is actually a saying, that “sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can kill you”-- that words, especially coming from a powerful position, can lay down the groundwork for a culture of violence and incite epidemics of violence in ways that individual factors could never do. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So you were about to mention the idea of a pitfall that we can all fall into is normalizing this behavior. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that? 

BANDY LEE: Already we know from his followers that his followers are-- so when you have mental pathology, especially in a position of power-- and dangerous mental pathology is overrepresented in positions of power, because they often hunger for power and hunger for that kind of a position. 

But of course, when they get to power, they do not put it to any healthy use. They use it for their own self-gratification. 

And because they’re such ineffectual leaders, they will scapegoat. And they will distract. And they will subvert our notions of reality, where the healthy becomes wrong. And the malignant and pathological becomes what is right and what is healthy in their paradigm, if you will. 

So in a healthy democracy, we do not see many of these kinds of dangerous leaders. 

But in a broken democracy, where many people are suffering or many people have already succumbed to mental vulnerability themselves, that’s when we see these types of leaders rise to power.

And it’s very much like what happens in a household when you have someone who is unwell and untreated. 

And you leave them in a household of healthy individuals. It’s not the person who is ill who becomes healthy. It’s the healthy individuals who take on the symptoms and characteristics of the illness that this one individual has. 

In other words, the one sick individual overwhelms the rest of the family in a very dramatic phenomenon that we call “shared psychosis.” 

And the treatment for that is, first, extraction of the sick individual from that family. And almost immediately-- almost every mental health professional who has treated serious mental illness has experienced this. 

Almost instantly, the family becomes normal again without that kind of exposure and pressure every day to, in other words, reverse their notion of reality. 

In other words, delusions become real. And reality becomes delusion. 

And malignancy becomes the desired state. And healthy directions are avoided. 

So once you extract the individual and give them proper treatment and then educate the family and place them back, then they can function in a way that that phenomenon doesn’t happen. 

But we have also seen this happen to nations. And it is, in a sense, happening to our nation simply by the natural course of mental pathology, because we aren’t giving the president the right treatment. 

We’re not managing him according to the proper standards of what we should do. In fact, we let him loose back-- well, we allowed him to enter into this nation family of, could have been, largely healthy individuals at the start. But the longer his presidency progresses, the sicker the nation will become. And that is what we’re seeing.

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So tell me a couple of examples of how you see the nation as a whole becoming less stable, less healthy, because of the example and the interactions that Trump is doing. 

BANDY LEE: Well, first of all, you almost cannot catch up, for example, his lies. When he has told 10,000 lies, we can point that out and try to cognitively tell ourselves, 

“He is someone who cannot be trusted. He tells all these lies.” But when you’re bombarded with those lies all the time and trying to put yourself in a whole different state that you’re not used to being in, where you’re constantly bombarded with lies and you have to push back all the time; and it’s coming from a very powerful person, nonetheless; those who have already succumbed, in a sense, to a state of poor mental health will actually welcome his lies and be very drawn to that. 

And in fact, someone who is delusional, and especially paranoid and delusional, is actually more effective in rallying large populations than a healthy individual. 

So the fact that they’re effective doesn’t mean that they are strategic. 

It doesn’t mean that they are well-aware of what they’re doing. 

We often hear about Mr. Trump saying that he listens to his gut more than anything else. 

That’s actually often what happens with pathology. The primitive part of your psychology pulls you in. 

And you will not be able to listen to reason, not be able to take in reality, facts, or even consider their importance, because you’re so strongly pulled by this primitive impulse and this primitive drug. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Thank you for that. Could you also explain the relationship between narcissism and dangerousness? 

BANDY LEE: Well, narcissism is a full spectrum, I should first say-- that narcissism by itself is not pathological. And of course, there’s a whole developmental progression. 

When someone is stuck in narcissistic personality disorder, for example, which is just a very small proportion but a very dangerous proportion of those of the full spectrum of narcissism-- so there is healthy narcissism. We need narcissism to function. 

As children or teenagers, we need narcissism to prop ourselves up.

And until we can build a true foundation of self-love and self-confidence, we rely on that narcissism to go on. 

Where it becomes pathological is when, at an adult stage, you don’t have the inner resources, because you weren’t given the nurturance or the cultural support, or there are genetic factors, as well. 

A confluence of factors have not given you what you needed to progress to the natural stage of maturity, where you would be free of that kind of pathological narcissism, where you cannot think of anything else. 

You cannot think of other people. You cannot have empathy for others. 

You cannot even consider-- you simply have no room for consideration of national interest, because you are engulfed in that need for adulation and approval. 

And because you have nothing internal, you’re constantly trying to elicit from the outside. 

And so you draw people into a pathological symbiosis with yourself, where you give them the ideal strongman figure: the protector that they’re longing for, or that somebody they can identify with, because they’re feeling so powerless. 

So you create that grandiose facade, which has nothing to do with reality. 

It deflates very easily. That’s why it’s so fearful for these individuals. 

And they become paranoid and sometimes even go into a psychotic spiral in order to convince themselves that they are truly that strong and capable and expert in everything and a stable genius, if you will. 

And by giving people this inflated kind of cartoonish image of an unreal person-- which buttresses the self, as well as brings in the approval and adulation they direly need in order simply to exist-- for that to fall away, we, as normal individuals, cannot even imagine the catastrophe that they would feel at that moment, that that grandiose self-image, which is really a house of cards-- an inflated balloon that really does deflate easily through criticism or revelation of facts or falling away of followers-- then that represents a catastrophic moment, where even destruction of the world would be preferable to the experience of that humiliation.

And because often these individuals cannot consider consequences, they do not have empathy, do not have any guilt feelings about killing millions of people at a time, they could easily press the nuclear button, for example. 

In fact, weapons such as nuclear arsenals will be very attractive to them. 

And we know from Mr. Trump’s own conversations that he is very attracted to nuclear weapons. 

He asks, “Why do we have them if we don’t use them?” 

He has pursued policies-- the Nuclear Posture Review-- which makes first nuclear strike possible, that he has encouraged usable nuclear weapons, which are still the size of Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs (so, able to obliterate entire cities). 

And this would actually be something they would be very drawn to do, even without needing to eliminate the observing eye. They would love to project their power and would look for opportunities to do that, especially if they felt cornered or criticized. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So basically, if I’m getting what you’re saying correct, is that the narcissist person has certain vulnerabilities and sensitivities that would incline them to react potentially in dangerous and extreme ways to whatever they feel is an assault on their self-esteem or their imperviousness or their grandiosity. 

And that’s really the heart of the danger. So it seems to me that narcissists, in particular, may or may not be dangerous unless they’re in a position of great power. 

BANDY LEE: That’s right. So “dangerousness” is not a diagnosis. It does not have to do, really, with the particular individual as much as the situation. 

Mr. Trump as a private citizen may not be such a danger. In fact, he may just screw over maybe dozens of workers and cause some harm at the level of a real estate developer or a reality TV personality or any other manner. 

But he would not have within his grasp the power to destroy human civilization. 

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: And I remember that in the first book, it accurately predicted a tremendous amount of the behavior and the changes that we saw in Mr. Trump. What’s your worry about if he remains unchecked? 

BANDY LEE: So I am worried that we have been as correct as we have been. And in fact, it’s been a near consensus among mental health professionals. Many mental health professionals have said, I don’t have to see what happens. In fact, everything was clear from the very moment of the start of the presidency.

And the prospects for the future are very frightening. I don’t even know how we will get through the rest of his term. Most people who are not attuned to the psychological aspects are simply thinking of his presidency politically.

And since we have endured all his psychological signs this far, we’ll endure it for another year and a half or however more it might be. Well, it doesn’t quite work that way. Someone who has had the taste of power will expect greater power. And we can see from his blatant assumptions that he should be above the law and he should be able to get his way. If not, he will simply make an executive order or declare a national emergency or use any of his enablers around him. 

And that’s another normalization process, where he has now surrounded himself. He has stripped away the moderating forces and surrounded himself with enablers and those who agree with his
mentality or who are there to actually make use of his weaknesses and therefore have extreme agendas or dangerous agendas in mind. 

So the likelihood is that this will accelerate.

And the danger levels were already unacceptable at the beginning of the presidency. It will be increasingly unacceptable. And I simply do not know how much more we can hold on to our
democracy, hold on to checks and balances, hold on to the limits of what is possible and what is acceptable.

And those things are largely social contracts. They are mental agreements. And when you mess up the mind, in a sense, and if you tyrannize the mind, then anything becomes possible. And there is simply no way to counter that.

And that was the third prediction that we made, that eventually this presidency, if we allowed it to go on for too long, it would become uncontainable. I’m not so sure we are not at that state right now. 

I’m still, with my colleagues, doing what we can.

In fact, we have a lot of solidarity among us. It may seem like I’m the only voice or not many of us are speaking up. But in fact, there are hundreds and thousands of us, in fact, eager to speak up.

But the media will not cover us. No one will give us a voice, a platform. And pretty much the APA has given most of the media the excuse to avoid an uncomfortable topic or the ammunition
to counter us.

And that is why education is so important. Knowledge on the part of the public is power and often the one guard that the people have against tyranny. And when you take that knowledge away
or block that knowledge-- and in certain cases, that knowledge may happen to be specialized knowledge-- then the public is disempowered.

And I feel that there was a critical moment when the public needed critical information. And that was what mental health professionals had to give. It’s somewhat like an individual-- an individual
who is spiraling into a state of mental psychosis, if you will.

A state of psychosis, there is a small window of time when they will be able to respond to the problem they’re experiencing, to get help, and to take a course that will be life-affirming and not
bring them further into illness and damage to the self. 

And the ability to do that is called “insight”-- the ability to recognize that something is wrong. And that is something that goes away, in the case of mental pathology.

And in a society, mental health professionals represent that insight: the ability to recognize that something is wrong, to recognize what is abnormal from what is normal-- because most people, in general, are, for the most part, exposed to healthy individuals and would not be able to imagine what living with pathology is like and even less recognize what needs to be done. 

In fact, what needs to be done is often quite counter-intuitive or goes against what you are pulled to do when you are in the presence of a pathological individual, who will press you to submit to their version of reality, who will bully you into accepting their ways, who will pressure you into postponing impeachment or backing away or not intervening in the kind of assertive ways that are necessary.

Even as they are bullying and aggressing, they will call themselves victims. And so these are the kinds of things that will pressure you to do the opposite of what is needed. 

So it takes specialists, who deal with mental pathology day in and day out and know the protocols of management-- that you actually need aggressive, early intervention in these cases, that the longer you let it go on, the more emboldened the person will be, the more uncontainable the person will be, and the more victimized and incapable of holding on to reality and help all the other people will be. And this is the kind of information that we had to give and were blocked from being effective in our delivery of it.

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So again, I really, truly want to commend you for the effort of that. And I want to ask a two-part question here, because we have a few moments left. And one is that,
again, our audience today is mixed. There are professionals watching. And there are lay individuals watching.

And so I do think that knowledge is empowering. And I think that people are eager and interested in how they can participate. So what advice might you give to mental health professionals? 

And what advice might you offer to just lay citizens of our country or any country who would like to have a voice in pointing out dangerousness or being able to raise a voice and say, “The emperor
has no clothes”? What might you say?

BANDY LEE: Well, to my fellow mental health professionals, I will say, don’t be afraid to take up your own moral agency, to act on your conscience, that there are many of us. 

And mental health professionals-- health professionals, in general-- are trained to practice according to standards and protocol. 

And so they easily fall in line when they’re told to do things a certain way. 

But our professional organizations will not be held accountable when they are being unethical and they are exerting their power in unseemly ways. 

And we have to hold them accountable-- there’s no one else to do so-- and to retain our moral agency, our independence of thinking, our sense of duty, because the ethics are clear. Our responsibilities are to humanity, to patients, and to society, not to power, not to tyrannical regimes.

In fact, we are the moral voices and often the neutralizing grounds for partisan power or political abuses, that we can help bring all parties back to reality and be a grounding force, because our
practice is science-based. Based on evidence and research and observable clinical phenomena, we know what pathology looks like. 

So do not be afraid to speak up, to say what you see and
what you know to be true.

To non-mental health professionals, I would say, as citizens of this country, of this world, that the people are the ones who hold power, that tyranny begins by hijacking the mind. 

In fact, I consider the tyranny over the mind to be the greatest form of oppression. 

And Steve Biko and other scholars have said so, as well. And Edmund Burke has advised that there’s nothing that enables
tyranny as much as silence, or something to that effect; and so to take charge of that power that we already hold as the people.

And we have the truth on our side and the power on our side. And no small group can gain control over us, as long as we exercise that power and know that even the most powerful man in the
most powerful country in the world is still an employee of the people and a public servant and should have the mental capacity to be able to serve in his office. 

And it should be let known. And he should be held accountable in that sense and that he should have the capacity to serve in an office, even if he were elected. If it were through manipulation or deception or in spite of the lack of capacity, we should call that out and demand that we have a capable leader.

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: So in short, while the advice is somewhat different, the similarity is about speaking truth-speaking truth about what we observe, speaking truth not based on a preference
or a belief or a distortion, but just on observable behavior, observable facts. 

And so if we see something wrong, if we see something that is pathological or dangerous, we should be empowered
enough to not be silent, to be joining other’s voices so that there’s more, I guess, power within people versus the tyranny of power at the top.

BANDY LEE: That’s right. And as your audience becomes more educated and aware of how narcissism manifests, they will recognize the signs and traits and that it’s pretty uniform when it

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manifests pathologically in an individual. It’s not hard to miss-- it’s hard to miss. And they will be better able to protect themselves and act in their own interest.

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: That is our hope. If mental health professionals would like to join the coalition, what’s the website that they should go to?

BANDY LEE: It is dangerouscase.org. “Dangerouscase” all is one word, “dot” org, taken after The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump, the title of the book.

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Thank you. Well, Bandy, thank you so much for this time today. It was both very rich and very helpful. 

And also, I really want to express a debt of gratitude that I feel as
a mental health professional and as a citizen towards you and your colleagues for being the first to speak up and organize about this and to take the risks that you did to express this truth. So thank you so very much.

BANDY LEE: Many of us are in this together. So I’d actually like to use this opportunity to honor the thousands of mental health professionals who have joined, who have actually organized
the coalition themselves, and have allowed many things to happen, because together, we are able to do a lot more. And thank you for the work that you do. And I’d like to express my gratitude for your putting in this kind of effort for a very worthwhile discussion, as well.

JEFFREY RUTSTEIN: Thank you, Bandy. Thank you so much. And thank you to those of you who joined us for today’s session. 

Please note that the recording of this session will remain accessible
for free for 24 hours.

And if you wish, you can purchase the entire summit with lifetime access to each recording, transcripts from each session, and bonus gifts from our presenters. For Sounds True, this is Jeffrey Rutstein.

Soundstrue.com: waking up the world.