A Jewish “Crisis Pregnancy” Group Follows Its Anti-Choice Christian Cousins
Nothing pisses me off more than lies and misleading information. The only repercussions of abortion are the ones people create in their own heads, but the repercussions of bringing new beings into this world that we are not in a position to take care of physically, emotionally, and psychologically are massive.
Schiavonne's words are so true: “When it comes to protesting abortion, I notice that anti-abortionists usually have pictures of fully developed babies. That is very inaccurate since abortions usually involve zygotes, embryos, and fetuses. Besides, they are potential lives, not actual people. To say that abortion is human murder is like saying that eating scrambled eggs is chick murder. (No offense to vegetarians/vegans who are against eating egg products.)
I also see the hypocrisy when it comes to conservative Christians and Catholics. Since they believe that people are born evil, it's funny how they call potential people "innocent", but once they are born, they are suddenly labeled "evil" and are punished in horrible ways to have this "innate evil" driven out of them, and these poor children grow up to do the same to their own offspring or other scapegoats. This is one of the reasons why I left religion four years ago and lost belief in God in general. A god who bribes you with heaven and punishes you with hell, and who basically is a ripoff of older, outdated deities, is not a god worth believing in.
A few years ago, I thought I would feel guilty if I had an abortion. Now I would feel guilty if I brought a child into the world and couldn't meet his/her needs. I'm relieved that so-called pro-life organizations like this are exposed for their truly harmful agendas."
Posted by Schiavonne on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 5:06 PM
I also see the hypocrisy when it comes to conservative Christians and Catholics. Since they believe that people are born evil, it's funny how they call potential people "innocent", but once they are born, they are suddenly labeled "evil" and are punished in horrible ways to have this "innate evil" driven out of them, and these poor children grow up to do the same to their own offspring or other scapegoats. This is one of the reasons why I left religion four years ago and lost belief in God in general. A god who bribes you with heaven and punishes you with hell, and who basically is a ripoff of older, outdated deities, is not a god worth believing in.
A few years ago, I thought I would feel guilty if I had an abortion. Now I would feel guilty if I brought a child into the world and couldn't meet his/her needs. I'm relieved that so-called pro-life organizations like this are exposed for their truly harmful agendas."
Posted by Schiavonne on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 5:06 PM
Schiavonne, thank you for writing; your observations are so truthful, and you articulate them so beautifully. I always enjoy reading your comments. You’re a breath of fresh air. Congratulations on letting go of the illusion of religion, morality, and God.
As Alice Miller says: “…Morality and performance of duty are artificial measures that become necessary when something essential is lacking. The more successfully a person was denied access to his or her feelings in childhood, the larger the arsenal of intellectual weapons and the supply of moral prostheses has to be, because morality and a sense of duty are not sources of strength or fruitful soil for genuine affection. Blood does not flow in artificial limbs; they are for sale and can serve many masters… …The artificial nature of moral laws and rules of behavior is most clearly discernible in a situation in which lies and deception are powerless, i,e., in the mother-child relationship. A sense of duty may not be fruitful soil for love, but it undoubtedly is for mutual guilt feelings, and the child will forever be bound to the mother by crippling feelings of guilt and gratitude…”
As Alice Miller says: “…Morality and performance of duty are artificial measures that become necessary when something essential is lacking. The more successfully a person was denied access to his or her feelings in childhood, the larger the arsenal of intellectual weapons and the supply of moral prostheses has to be, because morality and a sense of duty are not sources of strength or fruitful soil for genuine affection. Blood does not flow in artificial limbs; they are for sale and can serve many masters… …The artificial nature of moral laws and rules of behavior is most clearly discernible in a situation in which lies and deception are powerless, i,e., in the mother-child relationship. A sense of duty may not be fruitful soil for love, but it undoubtedly is for mutual guilt feelings, and the child will forever be bound to the mother by crippling feelings of guilt and gratitude…”
WHERE THERE IS NO LOVE - THERE MUST BE LAWS AND RULES
Also, these words by Alice Miller to one of her readers are so true: “unwanted children are usually mistreated. But there exist as a rule also a huge amount of people who were "wanted" indeed, but only for playing the role of the victims that their parents needed to be able to take revenge on. They were wanted to give their parents what the parents never had gotten from their own parents: love, adoration, attention, and so many other things. Otherwise, why would so many people have five or more children when they have no time for them? Why do they adopt children if their body refuses to give them what they apparently "want?"
The never acknowledged, never felt pain of their childhood calls for being avenged. They go to church, they pray, they honor their parents, forgive them everything – and they mistreat their children at home, often in a very cruel way, AS IF THIS WERE THE MOST NATURAL THING, because they learned this so early. Their children learn this perverted behavior, also very early, and will later do the same; and so this perverse behavior continues for millennia. Unless people are willing to SEE the perversion of their parents and are ready to consciously refuse to imitate it.
You are not being "sickeningly sarcastic," you only dared to speak out the truth that most people are afraid of seeing or talking about."
Also, these words by Alice Miller to one of her readers are so true: “unwanted children are usually mistreated. But there exist as a rule also a huge amount of people who were "wanted" indeed, but only for playing the role of the victims that their parents needed to be able to take revenge on. They were wanted to give their parents what the parents never had gotten from their own parents: love, adoration, attention, and so many other things. Otherwise, why would so many people have five or more children when they have no time for them? Why do they adopt children if their body refuses to give them what they apparently "want?"
The never acknowledged, never felt pain of their childhood calls for being avenged. They go to church, they pray, they honor their parents, forgive them everything – and they mistreat their children at home, often in a very cruel way, AS IF THIS WERE THE MOST NATURAL THING, because they learned this so early. Their children learn this perverted behavior, also very early, and will later do the same; and so this perverse behavior continues for millennia. Unless people are willing to SEE the perversion of their parents and are ready to consciously refuse to imitate it.
You are not being "sickeningly sarcastic," you only dared to speak out the truth that most people are afraid of seeing or talking about."
I could not agree more! “Someone asked me what I thought about men's reproductive rights and if I was "pro-choice for men" as well as for women. Answer: Yes, I am pro-choice for all humans. And as far as men's reproductive rights go, here's a handy-dandy guide to how males reproduce and what men can do to exercise their reproductive rights.
The thing some men (not all, of course) fail to understand is that men already have complete control over their own bodies on a legal and social level. Is that to say men are never abused? Not all. But if one is willing to look at the facts and admit male privilege exists, it is clear that women are systematically controlled by legal and social spheres, and are still fighting for their autonomy and their right to decide what happens to their own damn bodies.
Do we, as a society, attempt to control what men do with their sperm through legislation? No. Why should society and the government control what women do with their uteri?
~OK”
The thing some men (not all, of course) fail to understand is that men already have complete control over their own bodies on a legal and social level. Is that to say men are never abused? Not all. But if one is willing to look at the facts and admit male privilege exists, it is clear that women are systematically controlled by legal and social spheres, and are still fighting for their autonomy and their right to decide what happens to their own damn bodies.
Do we, as a society, attempt to control what men do with their sperm through legislation? No. Why should society and the government control what women do with their uteri?
~OK”
Anja: Yes, I've always said this myself: long before the invention of birth control, MEN were the ones who decided how many babies would be born in a family. He had full control, since he could control his ejaculation. In families where the men didn't want so many children, women did not have to bear them; in families where the men wanted many children, women had to bear many children. And nobody EVER talks about how men always have had the opportunity to abort their children, even after they're born. My father aborted me, for example; I never heard a peep from him in all my life. To him, I don't exist. My mother didn't have THAT choice, since she couldn't deny my existence.
Sylvie: Anja, you are 100% correct! I am sorry your biological father never acknowledged you. Some men unconsciously and compulsively take revenge on women for the wrongs done to them when they were defenseless little infants and children, and unconsciously contribute to the creation of new beings to have the same fate as them.
Anja: That was actually very close to a feminist suggestion I heard. I don't remember if it was serious or if it was some kind of satire, but it was: what if every 15- to 16-year-old young man were to leave a couple of sperm samples and then get mandatory vasectomies? Nobody could then father children by mistake, and no woman could be fooled by men who claim they've had vasectomies but lie to avoid condoms. And since sperm quality is at its best around that age anyway...
Sylvie: François, you made some very good points, and I have been saying this all of my life: women and men are in the same boat. We come from the same place; one is not better than the other. We might react differently and express our pain differently, but the pain is the same for both sexes. My only issue is: why are men allowed to enjoy sex freely and are allowed to live unconsciously in our society, but women are not allowed to enjoy sex freely and society go after women with a vengeance, the double standards drive me up the wall, why men are allowed to throw away their live sperm, but oh my goodness if a woman gets rid of her fertilized egg, she is called every name in the book! Also, it’s the same with some heterosexual people who think they are superior and better than homosexuals and go after them with a vengeance and discriminate against them; one is not better than the other, just like men are not better than women. It makes my blood boil when I hear people who are against abortion tell women to keep their legs closed, and my answer is: why can’t men keep their penises in their pants, for the same reason: women like sex as much as men. Let’s have the same demands for everyone! Just like Alice said to one of her readers: AM: Why do people expect and demand more from homosexuals than from heterosexuals? Why do the latter ones have the right to live unconsciously (with the image of their happy childhood and a wonderful mother) more than the first ones? Homosexuals do even less harm to society because they don't produce children to exploit them, abuse them, and teach them violence. Of course, they CAN abuse children and do much harm when they force them to keep silent. But many heterosexuals do the same, too, even if they are parents of their own children. So what is the matter with our demands? Do we question why millions of religious people say that beating children is right because of Solomon's wisdom? No, we don't do anything and see this as normal. Do we ask why millions of women let their daughters become sexually mutilated? No, we think that their religion is demanding that. But even the Koran does not demand this at all. It MAY be (I don't know it for sure) that the repressed rage of some men who were beaten as children by their mothers or sisters unconsciously wants to take revenge when they are adults for what they had to endure in childhood. They honor their mothers and punish their daughters instead. So they feel good with this tradition and support it with their whole might. But be careful and don't give such information to anybody who does not ask you for. They would kill you rather than accept the truth that they suffered abuse in childhood. You know how much time it takes to confront oneself with one's own childhood. So don't try to be a healer in telling people what they definitely don't want to know. You can only heal yourself, and this is much, very much.”
Sylvie: Anja, here is the article you were talking about earlier. I used Google Translate and saved it in my blog.
Sylvie: I am sorry, Anja. Most of us are here because our parents were unconscious, and now it’s in our hands to become conscious and take responsibility for our childhood wounds. I usually tell people we either find the courage to face and feel our repression or continue unconsciously and compulsively to pass it down into the next generation like a psychological virus. “We never know how a child will and must react to the injustice he or she has suffered,” Alice Miller writes. And because of this, we should do all we can to prevent bringing more traumatized children into the world in the first place, because trauma is so hard to heal, especially once a person has become a teenager or an adult, and the powerful enablers in our society don’t help. And this is why I want to do all I can to remove the stigma from abortion so I can prevent from more traumatized new beings from being born in the first place and if a women wake up pregnant and know in her heart she is in no position to bring a child into the world, I want her to know it’s nothing wrong with abortion, but bringing a child into the world we are not in place to take care of and protect the repercussions are massive.
Why someone didn’t choose abortion can be so many, maybe the young woman never felt loved by anyone and fall into the illusion having a baby will guaranty she will have someone, at last, that will love her once and for all or the pressure of family, society, and religion or the unconscious desire to create a new being to use as scapegoat or poisonous container for repress effect. This quote by Alice Miller comes to mind: “The need to split off the disquieting parts of the inner self and project them onto an available object. The child’s great plasticity, flexibility, defenselessness, and availability made it the ideal object for this projection. The enemy within can, at last, be hunted down on the outside. Peace advocates are becoming increasingly aware of the role played by these mechanisms, but until it is clearly recognized that they can be traced back to methods of child-rearing, little can be done to oppose them. For children who have grown up being assailed for qualities, the parents hate in themselves can hardly wait to assign these qualities to someone else so they can once again regard themselves as good, “moral,” noble, and altruistic. Such projections can easily become part of any Weltanschauung.” Alice Miller
Why someone didn’t choose abortion can be so many, maybe the young woman never felt loved by anyone and fall into the illusion having a baby will guaranty she will have someone, at last, that will love her once and for all or the pressure of family, society, and religion or the unconscious desire to create a new being to use as scapegoat or poisonous container for repress effect. This quote by Alice Miller comes to mind: “The need to split off the disquieting parts of the inner self and project them onto an available object. The child’s great plasticity, flexibility, defenselessness, and availability made it the ideal object for this projection. The enemy within can, at last, be hunted down on the outside. Peace advocates are becoming increasingly aware of the role played by these mechanisms, but until it is clearly recognized that they can be traced back to methods of child-rearing, little can be done to oppose them. For children who have grown up being assailed for qualities, the parents hate in themselves can hardly wait to assign these qualities to someone else so they can once again regard themselves as good, “moral,” noble, and altruistic. Such projections can easily become part of any Weltanschauung.” Alice Miller
Feeling the repressed anger of the child we once were at our mother is the most difficult anger to feel, because we are high wired to love our mothers no matter what and feeling our anger towards our mothers causes us to feel guilty and the pressures of society that idealizes mothers don’t help either and most men unconscious take revenge on all women for the wounds suffered when they were defenseless little children at the hands of their own mothers and women unconsciously hate all other men and most women and men are stuck in their hate and don’t realize that are making each other scapegoats. Anger can never be resolved when directed at scapegoats; it can only be resolved when felt and understood within the context of our own childhood.
These words by Alice come to mind also: “...It is only in the child that traumas are bound to lead to psychic wounds because they damage the organism in its growth process. These injuries can heal if one dares to see them, or they can remain unhealed if one is forced to go on ignoring them. The feminist movement will forfeit none of its strength if it finally admits that mothers also abuse their children. Only the truth, even the most uncomfortable, endows a movement with the strength to change society, not the denial of the truth. When men abuse their women, and the women put up with it, both the violence of the men and the tolerance of the women are consequences of early child abuse. Hence, young children, male as well as female, can become victims of adults of either sex. When sensitive, nonbrutal women (and men) are incapable of protecting their children from the brutality of their partner, one must attribute this inability to the blinding process and the intimidation experienced in their own childhood. That is the simple truth. Only when these roots of all violence are exposed is it possible to examine the phenomena without retouching or embellishing them. When a female therapist has been taught that men are solely to blame for all evil in the world, she will, of course, be able to support her female patients when they eventually discover that they have been sexually abused by their fathers, grandfathers, or brothers: Unlike the followers of the drive theory, she will not talk them out of this truth. But as long the truth about the mother who allowed the abuse to happen, who failed to protect the child and ignored her distress, is kept out of sight, the full reality is not allowed to be either perceived or acknowledged. And as long as the child’s feelings cannot be experienced, the rage against men---a rage she can already experience --- remains impotent: it can even remain coupled with the undissolved loyalty and devotion toward the father or other abusive men. When mothers are defended as pathetic victims, the female patient will not discover that with a loving, protective, perceptive, and courageous mother she could never have been abused by her father or brother. A daughter who has learned from her mother that she is worth protecting will find protection among strangers too and will be able to defend herself. When she has learned what love is, she will not succumb to simulated love. But a child who was merely pushed aside and disciplined, who never experienced soothing caresses, is not aware that anything like nonexploitative caresses can exist. She has no choice but to accept any closeness she is offered rather than be destroyed. Under certain circumstances, she will even accept sexual abuse for the sake of finding at least some affection rather than freezing up entirely. When, as an adult woman, she comes to realize that she was cheated out of love, she may be ashamed of her former need and hence feel guilty. She will blame herself because she dares not blame her mother, who failed to satisfy the child’s need or perhaps even condemned it. Psychoanalysts protect the father and embroider the sexual abuse of the child with the Oedipus, or Electra, complex, while some feminist therapists idealize the mother, thus hindering access to the child’s first traumatic experience with the mother. Both approaches can lead to a dead end, since the dissolution of pain and fear is not possible until the full truth of facts can be seen and accepted.” Alice Miller “Banished Knowledge” page 1, 2, 78 and 79
Read original Facebook comments here
